Hey, I put up new scenic videos at YouTube!

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

I just uploaded several new touring-scenic videos at YouTube, username JeffOYB.

*Crust skating golf course -- taken using crazy POLE-CAM

*Crust skating fields of local wildlife area -- helmet cam

*Crust and corn skiing at local nature-area trails -- helmet cam

*Oh, and a fresh upload of my classic (first) ski skating video with music-track -- hirez version to replace nasty old lorez

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:10 am Post subject :

Old school skiing at it's best! Very Happy

Lead the way and make tracks. Others see your tracks and think "Oh, you can ski here? I'll have to try that!"

A number of years ago I was out following a local hot shot skier in mid-March when we came up to a bare section of trail about 10 feet long. I saw that and hesitated, he saw that - went into a telemark stance, slid right across it, and was GONE. No reason why you can't ski under sub optimal conditions.

Go Potter Go!

Smile

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

Ha!

Thanks... I need all the encouragement I can get. : )

***

Thinking of bare skiing...

When we did the Potto Raid old school ski race a month or so ago, I came flying down an icy hill, with drops, rocks and twists...and saw a 6-foot long wooden bridge across a creek come into view...no snow...bare wood. I hit that bridge fast. I made sure to twist and pole at the last moment so that my vector was going straight across the bridge coz I thought if there was any angle to it that I'd just slide off the side.

This race is hilarious due to all the surprises that suddenly pop into view or attention -- you're often so busy dealing with one treacherous move that you don't see the next one until it's too late. Actually, it's a course that's best for not-thinking.

Some of the big arch-bridges were also bare of snow -- these had 15-foot long wooden up- and down-ramps. On one I was lucky to have a guy in front of me so I could see what happened to him. I forget the details but it involved him trying to walk down then picking up speed and finally just sliding down then hitting the icy snow beyond without control...

The only times I've cleaned the course downhills were when I had no idea what was in front of me. This last time I walked down the worst hill when a guy I was with suggested it. When we THOUGHT of it, it made sense.

I ended up "winning" but I also recall thinking near the end -- with a couple wicked downhills to go -- that the after-party would be fun but ONLY if no one got hurt. A righteous winner always prays that no one behind him gets hurt. : ) It made me laugh to myself at the time, anyway. "Hey, this is going good for me! ...But only if it also goes good for everyone else, too!" Ha! Now THAT'S a race!

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject :

I always think of the old Bill Koch film where he's skiing down some slope on farm land (?) and he launches off a big boulder and lands in perfect Telemark style. I'll have to dig that one up and post it. Smile

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

Yeah, that's a great one!

I must have it around on VHS or maybe even a DVD copy. I believe someone from RSN sent it to me.

I searched for it at YouTube and came up empty.

There's some other cute vintage XC "how to" footage on YouTube, in a series.

Actually, there's a fair bit of vintage XC racing there. The Wassberg / Mieto showdown at Lake Placid is still amazing to see. That Juha ate up SO MUCH terrain with each LONG stride!

--JP

World Cup Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 583

Found that one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m8sh1Zz5tA
Interesting, all long powerful strides, not a double pole to be spotted. Are their skis THAT slow that day (or era)?
I'd wonder how Lucas Bauer would look next to those guys, on skis of that time. Admittedly, he's a strider more than a DPer himself.

That crust skiing...I wonder if such conditions could happen in my country. Now that global warming proves to be more than over-estimated, I'm looking forward to some good snow the coming years. Crust requires some thax/freeze cycles, it seems, before the whole cover melts away? Seems like the ultimate "XC" version of the sport. I'd LOVE to cross forrests and fields that way. Such freedom.

About vintage : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuxHS-Tx500
Skiing as it was only in existence for a few years. The pre-skating XC. Lots of marathon/finnstep striding going on. Lots of DP'ing here as well.
Odd, that if you'd been doing that 5 years earlier as a sub-top athletes, you might have collected some golds before the others aught on with it? I only see this now as a practice for skating.

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:08 am Post subject :

I use the stride DP a bit over the tops of climbs.

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

As regards the striding... that Juha Mieto dude had HUGE LONG strides. I dunno if DP would've been faster for him. But I suppose skis were lots slower then, maybe tracks, too -- that day looked kinda slow/soft.

As regards the marathon skate, those were somewhat lame "monochromatic" years, huh? But even then tasty glide was the thing. I remember enjoying good ski vibe. But it really musta been offputting to the thousands who had been thronging the citizen races. It really freaked out the old-guard, for sure! Heck, even the pre-skate DP-fests were becoming annoying, as canoe-racers kept dominating racing here in Michigan.

But, hey, I used the MS a lot in a race just a few years ago. I had great glide and used MS to milk it to the max. I didn't put the glide ski in a track, though. I pointed the glide ski kinda straight down the trail then gave quick, hard skates, but at a slow tempo, floating to the max on a straightened glide leg with the kick leg just floating out there. It was a stable, rocketing move, faster than anything else. Any time spent poling, or compressing was just wasting the glide, so I'd just POP the skate/pole. As soon as I figured out that move I rode those fast skis up on quite a few other skiers. It's funny how it goes when you have fast skis, kinda like "Watch out, I'm just ridin' these things!" You just do what it takes to keep the glide going and to keep standing on the rockets in a relaxed, stable way. --JP

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

I was racing all through the development of skating. Fun times! But my memory is bad. Here's how I recall it developed...

Season 1/Base-line (1981?): Regular classic.

Season 2: Classic turned into more DP-fest with folks using less and less kick wax.

Season 3: Enter marathon-skate -- one might leave a touch of kick wax on.

Season 4: Enter the "paddle grip" for poles. ?

Season 5: Begin "Open Field" (V2A) type skating -- trying to do that up hills was a pain, totally bogging down. I remember doing a Winter Triathon climbing 2 alpine resorts with that lame move. LONG, flexy poles being sold.

Season 6: V1 arrives. During rollerski season I couldn't figure out what they meant -- what side to power on? The assymetric poling was groovy. I used these new things called "Rollerblades" instead of rollerskis.

Season 7: Fluoro arrives.

Season 8: V2 arrives. Seems too strenuous. Can't do it more than 50 yards. Give up on it.

Season 9: HRM's everywhere.

Season 10: Master V2 by using lighter poles, less torso compression, dryland side-to-side hopping and gradual build-up progression.

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:59 am Post subject :

You can't generalize on anything by watching 30 seconds of one race.

I do recall seeing one Olympics, either '80 or '84 where technique was weird, I recall it being really elongated and I was mad because it looked so goofy!

Recall also that pole lengths then were shorter so a quick turnover would be easier and also they trained differently. Everything was classic so running was the basic training platform, perfect for developing high cadence or long stride diagonal. Smile

Ten years from now, kids will be laughing at what today's skiers are doing. Very Happy

xcskiforum 20K Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Posts: 69

I should do more marathon skating, I was getting (wierd) looks last time Very Happy

That is some major stride and consequent upper body lean for balance. Just need to find some retro 80's clothes and I can copy that move.

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

Lean? His torso is PARALLEL to the ground almost! It's astounding! He's eating up miles per stride cycle...

World Cup Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 583

Recently in Austria, this Dutch boy got to give a veteran of 15 years XC from Germany no less, his first skate lesson. He really digged marathon skating for getting the feel of the lateral push.

Jeff, I'd be interesting to see your fast skis skate moves, as well you naming it. The fast ski moped stride? NOt sure I'm visualizing it correctly.
Were you picking that technique from a noticably faster gliding ski when supporting full weight, gliding straight on? Was 2 skis parallel, or free skating, slower than one plus side-skates?

Seriously, was V2 a thing that took time to be developed after skating had it's bomb effect? I suppose everyone was a beginner, in the beginning, but I would have guessed the super endurance of those WC athletes would make it "natural" from the get-go. Funny that we now get to learn it as soon as we're ready for it. Now with 40 days or so on snow, I still find it hard to take advantage from V2 in ANY situation. Can't get the power down.

In some of thos videos, the kick wax seems to be performing pretty well, while the MS speed is pretty much skate-ski.

Semi-related. Did anyone ever use one kick wax and one "gripless" ski together to get around a classic course fast? Better MS and cornering action, faster downhills, and still some kick when absolutely necessary.

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject :

Uhhh ... 'some' kick just won't cut it. Very Happy

xcskiforum 50K Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 154

Not sure if I'm visualizing what you're saying... : ) My move was just a marathon skate out of the tracks. Somehow skating and poling only added friction so I skied in a way to get each turnover finished as quick as possible then I hung out on the glide leg as long as I could. It was a "popping" move. I'd hit it, then glide (then repeat).